tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-934395272727224504.post6211249466611341140..comments2023-06-14T04:58:41.133-04:00Comments on Intellectual Carpet Bombing: If You Consent To Sex Under False Pretenses, Is It Rape?ebl2009http://www.blogger.com/profile/04934119980855539269noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-934395272727224504.post-68835280106441312632008-05-07T12:32:00.000-04:002008-05-07T12:32:00.000-04:00My suggestion, as related to EBL earlier this morn...My suggestion, as related to EBL earlier this morning, is that the law be changed to include coercion in the definition of rape, in addition to the actual use of force. The threat of the use of force, or other forms of leverage (blackmail, sexual harassment in the work place, etc.), should qualify as rape.<BR/><BR/>I have trouble, however, convincing myself that fraud should be included. As heinous as this may sound, I don't beleive that the woman in the original story was raped. She willfully has sex with her boyfriend's brother. Yes, it was a case of mistaken identity, but she still consented. Once you say, as EBL suggests, that there must be consent to have sex "with the person who they believe [they] will have sex with," you open up a massive can of worms.<BR/><BR/>Even the brother having sex with the woman isn't such a clear cut case. Who has the burden of demonstrating their identity here? Why is the burden placed on him? It doesn't seem like he pretended to be the woman's boyfriend. He never said anything, so he certainly never made any claim to be his brother, and it seems the woman did literally nothing to check who she was having sex with, including even look at him (since when she saw him exiting the room, she recognized it was the brother). <BR/><BR/>Trickier, though, are questions about what it means to know who the other person is. What if I gave a fake name, but every other detail of what someone knows about me is accurate? What if I give a real name, but claim to be a hedge fund manager worth tens of millions of dollars? What if everything I say about myself is true, but I also have a criminal record that I never disclosed?<BR/><BR/>Saying that you need to "know" who the other person is seems overly subjective.Langhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16684574431077521663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-934395272727224504.post-7778130805035046092008-05-07T10:58:00.000-04:002008-05-07T10:58:00.000-04:00This debate is more complicated than initially mee...This debate is more complicated than initially meets the eye. At first, I figured found it somewhat comical in that the legislation that was passed in MA to remedy the law to include rap-by-fraud could have been done in a much simpler manner that I believe would have circumvented the Beth hypothetical.<BR/><BR/>It strikes me that it would have been far easier to include a few extra words onto the description of consent. Specifically, one could say that in order for it to be considered consensual sex, the potential victim must agree to sex with the the person who they believe he or she is going to have sex with. Though this addendum does open up the field to questions of ex post justification, e.g. I didn't know it was him after the fact, these complications would not seem more problematic than the current issues associated with ex-post justification of (non)consent. <BR/><BR/>Yet, when I went to the federal statute on what constitutes rape, I was surprised to find that there is no explicit definition of consent and therefore nowhere to place my addendum. <BR/><BR/>Here is the relevant section: <BR/><BR/>Aggravated Sexual Abuse by Force or Threat of Force: When a person knowingly causes another person to engage in a sexual act... or attempts to do so by using force against that person, or by threatening or placing that person in fear that that person will be subjected to death, serious bodily injury, or kidnapping.<BR/><BR/>Aggravated Sexual Abuse by Other Means: When a person knowingly renders another person unconscious and thereby engages in a sexual act with that other person; or administers to another person by force or threat of force, or without the knowledge or permission of that person, a drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance and thereby:<BR/><BR/> a) Substantially impairs the ability of that person to appraise or control conduct<BR/><BR/> b) Engages in a sexual act with that person <BR/><BR/>As you can see, there is clearly no place for a discussion of fraudulent behavior (unless you consider misrepresentation of identity akin to a chemical substance.) <BR/><BR/>So, thoughts on how it would be incorporated? I imagine the relevant statutes would be state-level ones identifying consent, which I am now searching for.ebl2009https://www.blogger.com/profile/04934119980855539269noreply@blogger.com